The Unsupportable Opinion: Clay Guida Won That Fight

[Rich Davie]

Good stuff Mu-Shin !

[Dirty Daley]

Interesting perspectives all. The nature of what we witnessed, consensus reality, and the subjective aspects of a common experience perceived differently.

Won't apologize to anyone, I've always been a fan of Clay Guida. No one works harder, and shows more heart.

I was watching the fight the other night and here in my living room, I sure thought I saw Guida hit Maynard almost every time he came in range. No, they were not bombs, and he didn't knock him out or crush him, but Clay was not the only one who walked out of the ring with battle scars.

Always feel my perspective is a little different, in that I spent more than ten years getting my ass kicked in TKD and the last couple on the mat in submission grappling, never having been the best or a natural athlete, but I learned and got better over time. It's obvious to me Clay Guida does not have the skills of guys like Condit, Cruz, Aldo, or Anderson Silva, but he's the kind of guy you have to kill to get him to quit. Say what you will about all this "exciting" and "entertaining" bullshit, I'm an MMA fan, and I'm excited and entertained by all kinds of action, not just flat footed slugging contests.

Maynard was not able to cut off the ring on Guida. Maynard was not able to knock him out. Maynard was not able to effect a submission. Maynard was not able to significantly outscore Guida on the feet, even according to the supposed Gold Standard of Fight Metric, which is just as subjective, non-scientific, and potentially biased as everything else I'm reading about this fight. You really think that equals a dominant crushing victory, just because Giuda confounded expectations and actually applied some kind of martial arts logic to this fight, and didn't pander to the blood lust and ADD of a beer soaked booing mob?

Personally, I thought the most reasonable outcome of the Maynard/Guida fight was a draw, as over the course of five rounds, neither fighter was able to demonstrate a significant advantage. Sorry if that does not play into Dana White's conception of what a fight should be, or anyone else's. From where I sat, I thought Clay was brilliant, only wishing that into rounds 4 and 5 he could have established more of a positive attack and landed more telling blows, or gone to his real strength, his wrestling base, and tried harder to end the fight. Gray Maynard is co-responsible for everything that happened in the ring that night, as he was almost totally frustrated in his attempts to successfully attack his opponent, which as I recall, is one or the primary goals when facing an adversary, taking less damage than your foe. Castigate Guida all you like for "running", "evading", "point-fighting", whatever, but one fighter is not solely responsible for what happens in the ring. Takes two to tango...

WELL SAID MU SHIN , AGAIN PUT EVERYTHING INTO PERSPECTIVE. THIS IS MARTIAL ART'S NOT STREET FIGHTING. MARTIAL ART'S WAS THE FIGHT IN THIS VS STREET BRAWLING. EVRYTHING GUIDA DID , STOPPED MAYNARD CONTROLLING THE FIGHT , MAYBE MAYNARD IS SO PISSED BECAUSE HE FELT EXPOSED , HE DIDNT KNOW HOW TO REACT TO A FIGHTER OUT SMARTING HIM. I LIKE THE FIGHT , ANYONE WHO DIDNT GOT A WHOLE LOT OF BRAWLING FROM THE RESTOF THE CARD. I DONT GET DANA WHITE'S OPINIONS ON THIS , HE KEEP'S MIKE RUSSOW WHO BORE ATTACK'S FIGHTER'S BUT KNOCKS GUIDA.

[Kickass32]

Ok, I take issue with this alittle bit. What Guida did was not fighting, was borderline MMA. Guida threw hundreds of punches but landed 47.....basically he did a 25 minute boxercise program.

If Guida had of implemented his gameplan in the same fashion that Carlos Condit did, I would have applauded him, much like I applauded Condit; however what Guida did amounted to running, avoidance and non engagement.

Guida, IMO embarrassed himself, his team, his opponent and the sport.

[BluenoseGreig]

Interesting perspectives all. The nature of what we witnessed, consensus reality, and the subjective aspects of a common experience perceived differently.

Won't apologize to anyone, I've always been a fan of Clay Guida. No one works harder, and shows more heart.

I was watching the fight the other night and here in my living room, I sure thought I saw Guida hit Maynard almost every time he came in range. No, they were not bombs, and he didn't knock him out or crush him, but Clay was not the only one who walked out of the ring with battle scars.

Always feel my perspective is a little different, in that I spent more than ten years getting my ass kicked in TKD and the last couple on the mat in submission grappling, never having been the best or a natural athlete, but I learned and got better over time. It's obvious to me Clay Guida does not have the skills of guys like Condit, Cruz, Aldo, or Anderson Silva, but he's the kind of guy you have to kill to get him to quit. Say what you will about all this "exciting" and "entertaining" bullshit, I'm an MMA fan, and I'm excited and entertained by all kinds of action, not just flat footed slugging contests.

Maynard was not able to cut off the ring on Guida. Maynard was not able to knock him out. Maynard was not able to effect a submission. Maynard was not able to significantly outscore Guida on the feet, even according to the supposed Gold Standard of Fight Metric, which is just as subjective, non-scientific, and potentially biased as everything else I'm reading about this fight. You really think that equals a dominant crushing victory, just because Giuda confounded expectations and actually applied some kind of martial arts logic to this fight, and didn't pander to the blood lust and ADD of a beer soaked booing mob?

Personally, I thought the most reasonable outcome of the Maynard/Guida fight was a draw, as over the course of five rounds, neither fighter was able to demonstrate a significant advantage. Sorry if that does not play into Dana White's conception of what a fight should be, or anyone else's. From where I sat, I thought Clay was brilliant, only wishing that into rounds 4 and 5 he could have established more of a positive attack and landed more telling blows, or gone to his real strength, his wrestling base, and tried harder to end the fight. Gray Maynard is co-responsible for everything that happened in the ring that night, as he was almost totally frustrated in his attempts to successfully attack his opponent, which as I recall, is one or the primary goals when facing an adversary, taking less damage than your foe. Castigate Guida all you like for "running", "evading", "point-fighting", whatever, but one fighter is not solely responsible for what happens in the ring. Takes two to tango...

Whilst I don't agree fully with all of your points, a very well argued post! Very good read too.

[BluenoseGreig]

Ok, I take issue with this alittle bit. What Guida did was not fighting, was borderline MMA. Guida threw hundreds of punches but landed 47.....basically he did a 25 minute boxercise program.

If Guida had of implemented his gameplan in the same fashion that Carlos Condit did, I would have applauded him, much like I applauded Condit; however what Guida did amounted to running, avoidance and non engagement.

Guida, IMO embarrassed himself, his team, his opponent and the sport.

I agree, Condit fought the gameplan in a far more offensive way.

[Red Tex]

The thing is Guida hasn't always been like that though....he does have some pretty good fights where he wasn't running scared......Huerta, Sanchez, Gugerty, Dos Anjos, Gomi, they were all pretty good fights.

I have never been a Guida fan, but even I will admit at some points Guida was a fairly entertaining fighter.

The only fights I've seen him entertaining in were against guys who are always entertaining fighters and bring raw fights to whomever they're fighting.

Diego Sanchez, Tyson Griffin, Florian, and Huerta.

Those were the only real exciting fights I've seen Guida involved in, and those 3 guys are always exciting as hell to watch. Guida was entertaining, because he was fighting guys that he couldn't pull those silly shenenigans with and guys that made him fight an aggressive fight. Any other fight that Guida could actually control, he made it a snooze fest and completely dodged having to make it a real fight.

The fights I remember the most of him was this recent one, Nate Diaz, Pettis, and Mac Danzieg. Guida fights to earn cheap point victories.

[Red Tex]

WELL SAID MU SHIN , AGAIN PUT EVERYTHING INTO PERSPECTIVE. THIS IS MARTIAL ART'S NOT STREET FIGHTING. MARTIAL ART'S WAS THE FIGHT IN THIS VS STREET BRAWLING. EVRYTHING GUIDA DID , STOPPED MAYNARD CONTROLLING THE FIGHT , MAYBE MAYNARD IS SO PISSED BECAUSE HE FELT EXPOSED , HE DIDNT KNOW HOW TO REACT TO A FIGHTER OUT SMARTING HIM. I LIKE THE FIGHT , ANYONE WHO DIDNT GOT A WHOLE LOT OF BRAWLING FROM THE RESTOF THE CARD. I DONT GET DANA WHITE'S OPINIONS ON THIS , HE KEEP'S MIKE RUSSOW WHO BORE ATTACK'S FIGHTER'S BUT KNOCKS GUIDA.

It may be MMA, but it is still a fight none the less. You're in the cage to fight. You're not in there to pull some cardio tourney where you swing your hands around a little bit. MMA is mixed martial arts, but it is still the sport of fighting, and your job is to go in there and win a fight, not a cardio challenge. Clay Guida disrespected the sport and the fans that paid good money that night.

[Dirty Daley]

Red tex , to me they are locked in a cage , once that door closes , anything goes , running , punching , kicking , slams ect..... It backfired on guida anyway.
I liked guida's attack and approach to the fight. The name of the game is to do more damage to your opponent than he does to you , i like the brawls aswell and ju jitsu battles. I like all fight's apart from lay & pray the full fight.

[Mu_Shin]

The whole reason I write on blogs like this is to trade perspectives and argue for varied points of view. Respect every well thought out response, and appreciate the spirit of all the posters here at the Crypt...

[Red Tex]

Red tex , to me they are locked in a cage , once that door closes , anything goes , running , punching , kicking , slams ect..... It backfired on guida anyway.

Well that is not exactly how it works. It isn't "anything goes." There are rules that apply obviously, and one of them is that you're supposed to fight. The ref had to tell Guida in the fifth the stop running and to do his job.

I liked guida's attack and approach to the fight. The name of the game is to do more damage to your opponent than he does to you , i like the brawls aswell and ju jitsu battles. I like all fight's apart from lay & pray the full fight.

I wasn't suggesting by fighting, that Clay Guida has to get into some crazy brawl where it's blow for blow the entire time or anything, but come on man, the guy was avoiding the fight at all costs. He has done this by lay and pray also in previous fights. It's a pattern with Guida.