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Thread: Crime victim uses submission hold, alleged burglar dies from injuries

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    Crypt Administrator Misfit's Avatar
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    Crime victim uses submission hold, alleged burglar dies from injuries


    Douglas UHler

    Martial arts choke holds are no joke. We've talked about that repeatedly after watching television and radio hosts asking MMA fighters to slap on the holds for a photo opportunity. The rear-naked or guillotine choke is a potentially lethal move if not treated with care. Just ask Alex Montalvo, who's in the center of a firestorm in New Jersey.

    Back in July of 2010, Montalvo fought off a burglar, slapped on a submission hold and left Douglas Uhler unconscious on the street. Uhler never fully recovered and died yesterday at 19 years old.

    On July 31 at 3:39 a.m. in Bridgewater, N.J., Montalvo and his wife heard their car alarm go off. The 42-year-old ran to the street, identified two suspects and chased them to the next block.

    With one punch, he knocked out Brian Johnston, 18. That's when Uhler emerged:

    Uhler ran out from nearby bushes and shouted: "You want a piece of me, (expletive)?!"

    Uhler jumped on Montalvo, who put him in a submission hold, Somerset County Prosecutor Geoffrey Soriano said. The move blocked the teen's oxygen flow, causing a brain injury, Soriano said.

    Uhler was taken to Somerset Medical Center and later treated at Robert Wood Johnson Medical Center. He never fully recovered from the injuries:

    A once-strapping high school football player, Uhler spent his days in bed or in a wheelchair. He had to be fed through a tube, according to court records. He was non-vocal and unable to walk, sit or roll. He also had poor head control. Uhler had been in and out of several hospitals, including the Children's Specialized Hospital and the Kessler Institute for Rehabilitation.

    Back in December, a grand jury indicted Uhler and Johnston on third-degree burglary charges. Johnson pleaded guilty and is awaiting charges. The Uhler family wants Monsalvo in a courtroom next, claiming he used excessive force to subdue their son.

    "New Jersey law allows you to defend your physical self as well as your property," said Jenny Carroll, an associate professor at Seton Hall Law School. "You're allowed to kill people under certain circumstances, particularly self-defense. If I jump on you, you're allowed to do what is required to make me stop hurting you. But if I pause, you can't just start kicking me in the head."

    Carroll said there are no clear-cut answers.

    "Here's the trick in this case — did the homeowner exceed the need to protect his property?" she said. "If the kids are still in the process of taking the homeowner's property, then he has a right to defend his property and to use force. The prosecutor must decide whether the homeowner used justifiable force, and whether it was reasonable.

    "Even in the heat of passion, if you're trying to subdue someone, it isn't reasonable to kill them," Carroll said.

    The response to the story on NJ.com has been heated.

    PrivateCitizen:

    Self Defense means you are in imminent danger. This man chased these teens down. They were running FROM him. This man needs to go to prison. He is not the hero vigilante some people here think he is!

    The attempted theft did not directly lead to the confrontation, his chasing them down did. Any 12 men or women will know that difference.

    drock:

    So is it wrong to defend one's property? What if this kid got passed out in the sleeper hold and then later recovered and didn't die? The act of putting one in a sleeper hold that you find robbing your car in the middle of the night doesn't exactly seem punishable to me.......you can't punish based on result or consequence but should punish based on action. In my opinion he didnt' do anything wrong and most people would chase down any if they caught them red handed too.

    Some commenters even pointed to the rise of MMA as a reason for this tragedy.

    mgm8822:

    With the new popularity of MMA, every punk who has taken a martial arts class and learned how to throw a punch or put someone in a choke hold thinks they have the right to kick anyone's ass for any reason. We have a lot of unstable people walking around nowadays who are trained in the use of lethal force.

    The Uhler family said their son had plans of attending William Patterson University, where he was looking to study sports medicine.

    MMA skills used to fight crime took center stage in the last few months when UFC champion Jon Jones and his trainers subdued a burglar in Paterson, N.J. in late March. In mid-February, MMA fan Joe Lozito helped police catch an alleged serial stabber on a New York City Subway.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cag...urn=mma-wp1243
    Don't call it a comeback...

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    That's a tough call, but if Alex Montalvo chased-down the kids he's probably gonna get some time for this as he was not fearing for his life at that moment to warrant the use of deadly force.

    Now if he was confronted by either one or both boys at the site of where the car was minus the foot chase and the outcome was the same, i.e. he knocked-out the 18 year old and choked-out the 19 year old resulting in death he'd have a much better chance of getting off on any charges under the law that allows self defense.

    BTW...

    Did ya notice how it was implied that a RNC & Guillotine Choke are interchangeable.

    The rear-naked or guillotine choke is a potentially lethal move if not treated with care.
    Even when I'm 100% certain of a fight outcome, I'm only 75% sure... and of that, there's only a 50/50 shot that I'm right.

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    Yeah and if a rnc is performed correctly it is a blood choke and not a air choke.
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    Yes... if the crook of the elbow is located in the trachea area then the bicep & forearm should be located on the sides of the neck.
    Even when I'm 100% certain of a fight outcome, I'm only 75% sure... and of that, there's only a 50/50 shot that I'm right.

    Too many people prefer the blue pill... me, I prefer the red pill.

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    Crypter MadMike76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Davie View Post
    Yes... if the crook of the elbow is located in the trachea area then the bicep & forearm should be located on the sides of the neck.
    Correct
    "Originally Posted by Rich Davie "
    I'm not interested in anything Brock Lesnar that doesn't have something to do with him getting his ass beat !
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    Which leads me to believe that this dude figured he'd only have one shot at takin' this kid out during the confrontation. IMO, the kids were kinda askin' for trouble breaking into the vehicle in the first place. I know people that would have shot them from the bedroom window for doing that, no chase needed. Laws are stupid in some cases, but this is definitely not black and white.
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    Crypter Red Tex's Avatar
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    People can think I'm insensitive or whatever, but I have no sympathy for this kid who died and I hope that the guy gets off or this is really messed up. A big part of the blame is on the law makers in this country who for some stupid fucking reason refuse to punish thieves in America properly and that's why we have such awful crime from theft, burglary, and robbery. I hate thieves more than anything. I've had my house broken into several times and my car doors are both broken on both sides because of so many times my car has been broken into. These guys get caught and they barely do any time and if they do at all they're getting probation and stealing again. This result has more to do with the problems from law makers than anything. At some point theft has to get severe punishments like they have in other countries. What we have in every state is far to lenient.

    I know two people personally that have killed intruders who entered their home and they were all over the news. Luckily they live in a great state like Texas where you're allowed to kill intruders or thieves on your property. One of the guys did exactly what this other guy Ulher did and they chased the guys off of the property and had a shootout with the intruders who fled the scene. Had that not happened I'm sure that the guy who they killed would have been right out there the next day robbing someone else. I've got to pay $45 dollars a month right now for an alarm system on my house because my neighborhood has been targeted a ton from burglary. It makes me sick, and any robber in my neighborhood had better pray that I don't catch him in the act.

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    Exactly why I'm glad NC is doing the same thing here soon.



    Sent from NC with heavy hands
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    Ya gotta love the Southern USA... the gun laws & right to defend yourself laws are some of the best in the Country.

    Florida is much like Texas... no need to seek a means of egress, it's a stand your ground law down here also.

    If somebody breaks into your home down here and you use deadly force on an intruder you're pretty much on safe ground as far as protection from prosecution... this also extends to your car and place of business.
    Even when I'm 100% certain of a fight outcome, I'm only 75% sure... and of that, there's only a 50/50 shot that I'm right.

    Too many people prefer the blue pill... me, I prefer the red pill.

    The problem confronting the world today is that the world is full of ideologues who are more concerned with promoting their ideology than dealing in the facts.

    An uneducated populous will fall for anything - Dr. Benjamin Carson

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    Crypter Red Tex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Davie View Post
    Ya gotta love the Southern USA... the gun laws & right to defend yourself laws are some of the best in the Country.

    Florida is much like Texas... no need to seek a means of egress, it's a stand your ground law down here also.

    If somebody breaks into your home down here and you use deadly force on an intruder you're pretty much on safe ground as far as protection from prosecution... this also extends to your car and place of business.
    Yeah, I've heard about cases in NY and other parts of the East Coast that's very liberal where people have gotten in trouble and sued actually for assaulting intruders in their fucking home!!!! Lol!

    What the hell kind of crazy shit is that?? I've been held up at gun point when I was only 14 years old. Thought my dad was going to have his head blown off. Scariest moment in my life actually. House been robbed, car been broken into, you name it. When does it ever end??? It's to easy to just steal from people and walk away like nothing unfortunately.

    Until America decides to really attack this problem we'll hear more and more about stuff like this, but unfortunatley most of the time we'll hear about the poor innocent victims who either get beaten or stolen from and have no recourse. Cops out here practically laugh if you call them for theft. They won't even write up a report about it half the time. They need to have laws where people get their hands cut off after two of three theft charges like they have in countries like Singapore or a public Caining where crooks get humiliated for days and let the general public laugh and ridicule them. I think that would start making people think twice.

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