• The Unsupportable Opinion: Clay Guida Won That Fight

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    The Unsupportable Opinion: Clay Guida Won That Fight



    By Jason Moles


    Clay Guida won that fight. I know what the scorecards said; Bruce Buffer announced them to the world loud and clear. I know what everybody and their brother said on Twitter as well. None of that matters, though, because I know what I saw. Friday night in Atlantic City, Guida defeated Gray Maynard. In what parallel universe can you throw nearly a hundred more strikes than your opponent, he spends the evening swinging at ghosts, and they declare him the winner? On the mean streets of Albuquerque, New Mexico, if you have all but one of your fourteen takedowns stuffed, that does not make you a winner. That makes…not a winner.
    Since when do we penalize fighters for not wanting to get smashed in the face? Guida willingly let himself be locked in a cage with “The Bully” for a total of twenty-five minutes. And yet somehow Maynard still wasn’t satisfied, saying at the post-fight press conference, “You can’t just go to the end of the cage and then back to the other end and back to the other end the whole time. You’ve got to give me a chance, too.”
    You’ve got to give me a chance, too?” Sorry, I thought Maynard was a professional fighter. I thought he was above the “If Johnny can’t hit off the pitcher, we’ll just bring out the tee” mentality. First, you don’t like his hair and now you don’t like the way he dances? If I didn’t know any better, I’d think you were looking for a date to the prom. You had your chance and you blew it. Were you really expecting Clay to just stand in front of you like the striking dummies at the gym?
    While many thought the actions of “The Carpenter” were egregious enough to warrant a PRIDE yellow card or even a point-deduction, let me point out that I didn’t see “The Bully” give much chase in an attempt to get his hands on Guida and implement his gameplan. It seemed rather, that Maynard was more content to just sit back and complain, flip the bird, cuss at Guida a little — something that in and of itself warranted a point deduction according to the Unified Rules of MMA — and then just sit back some more. Don’t even get me started on Maynard’s repeated hair-pulling. (Another point-deduction right there, if you’re keeping score.)
    You see, gentlemen, what we witnessed at UFC on FX 4 was the epitome of Octagon control. In fact, Guida went above and beyond the norm, dominating not only the sponsor sticker in the center, but every square inch of the canvas. Additionally, Guida stuffed thirteen takedowns to keep the fight standing — a prime example of a fighter dictating the pace and location of a fight. Fighters must rely on judges being aware of this, and can only hope the imbeciles sitting cageside are able to recognize it when they see it and score the rounds accordingly. It’s not the first time the wrong fighter had his hand raised, and if life as an MMA fan has taught me anything over the past decade, it won’t be the last.
    Clay Guida may not have been willing to become a punching bag for his opponent, nor should he have been. He was also not willing to go balls to the wall trying to take his opponent’s head off or put him to sleep on the mat, with a title shot potentially on the line. In a situation when most out-think the room, the Geico Caveman lookalike followed this popular maxim: Keep It Simple Stupid. Close the distance, get off a few clean shots, and get back out of range so he can’t counter. Simple and effective, no? The last time we saw this gameplan implemented, Carlos Condit won a title belt.
    Clay Guida beat Gray Maynard, plain and simple. Guida’s footwork and effective defense kept Maynard guessing at best, punching at phantoms at worst. From bell to bell and post to post, the Greg Jackson product literally danced his way to victory. I know, because I saw it. What fight were you watching?

    http://www.cagepotato.com/the-unsupp...on-that-fight/
    This article was originally published in forum thread: The Unsupportable Opinion: Clay Guida Won That Fight started by Kickass32 View original post
    Comments 30 Comments
    1. Dirty Daley's Avatar
      Dirty Daley -
      maynard only landed 3 more! look's like guida's movement worked out well , he normally get's hit alot more than that.
    1. Dirty Daley's Avatar
      Dirty Daley -
      If you look at the strikes in the diaz condit fight , diaz landed more body and head damaging blows while condit landed a shit load of front leg strikes and side leg strikes that wasnt all that powerfull. nice to see them give him the fight over them leg kicks , they wasnt all that powerfull most of them, just point scorers. diaz was banging him up against the cage. thank's , that proves my point that diaz won the fight.
    1. Tukh's Avatar
      Tukh -
      Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Daley View Post
      If you look at the strikes in the diaz condit fight , diaz landed more body and head damaging blows while condit landed a shit load of front leg strikes and side leg strikes that wasnt all that powerfull. nice to see them give him the fight over them leg kicks , they wasnt all that powerfull most of them, just point scorers. diaz was banging him up against the cage. thank's , that proves my point that diaz won the fight.
      Damn you tricked me!
    1. Dirty Daley's Avatar
      Dirty Daley -
      I see your point's tukh. we have seen so many of these gameplans , some people praise it (machida) & some people hate it. It is always going to be an up and down issue. That is the beauty of it really. maynard went for a war or a ko , guida went for a decision and it sort of backfired. sometimes it work's & sometimes it doesnt. 1 thing i dont follow is the strike stat's , i go off if they were dropped or hurt , you could have a guy landing jab's to set the distance , he may land 20 jab's in a round then the other guy smashes him with 5 hard hooks to the body and an uppercut to put him to the deck but the stat's will show the guy with the jab's winning.
    1. Dirty Daley's Avatar
      Dirty Daley -
      The condit diaz fight was close , i personally gave it to diaz but i had a potential 400 pound winning's on the line if diaz won ,that would be about $700 u.s dollars. You can never leave it in the judges , there's so many way's to score a fight.


      http://mmacrypt.com/forum/showthread...me-Mike-Pierce you can see my heart breaking loss here.
    1. Red Tex's Avatar
      Red Tex -
      Why is everyone freaking out on Greg Jackson on this?? This is not really Jackson's fault. This is a typical Clay Guida type of fight.


      Clay Guida is the most overrated bullshit fighter in the UFC practically. He is right there with Fitch. Greg Jackson has several fighters that are some of the most exciting guys out there. Bones, COndit, DIego, Guillard (was there for a good while when he was winning), Carwin, Cub Swanson, Marquardt, and Cowboy Cirroni. That is a pretty long list of very exciting fighters that really bring it normally.

      Clay Guida is the problem. He tries to get cheap victories any way he can. When he is standing he never throws punches with bad intentions. He never goes in there and throws a full combos where he is trying to finish. WHen he does he might throw a few and than he always moves out of the way for points. When he wrestles he'll hump someone's leg like no other, and hardly ever will posture up and throw some bombs on guys when he has top control. Ask Nate Diaz, Pettis, and Mac Danzieg.

      I frequently hear this garbage about Clay Guida being this super exciting fighter. What a crock. Having great cardio and moving 1000 MPH doesn't = exciting when you're not trying to beat a guy's ass. Clad did not win anything. He simply tried to spar and win by points, but he didn't try to whoop anyone's ass.
    1. Kickass32's Avatar
      Kickass32 -
      The thing is Guida hasn't always been like that though....he does have some pretty good fights where he wasn't running scared......Huerta, Sanchez, Gugerty, Dos Anjos, Gomi, they were all pretty good fights.

      I have never been a Guida fan, but even I will admit at some points Guida was a fairly entertaining fighter.
    1. Mu_Shin's Avatar
      Mu_Shin -
      Interesting perspectives all. The nature of what we witnessed, consensus reality, and the subjective aspects of a common experience perceived differently.

      Won't apologize to anyone, I've always been a fan of Clay Guida. No one works harder, and shows more heart.

      I was watching the fight the other night and here in my living room, I sure thought I saw Guida hit Maynard almost every time he came in range. No, they were not bombs, and he didn't knock him out or crush him, but Clay was not the only one who walked out of the ring with battle scars.

      Always feel my perspective is a little different, in that I spent more than ten years getting my ass kicked in TKD and the last couple on the mat in submission grappling, never having been the best or a natural athlete, but I learned and got better over time. It's obvious to me Clay Guida does not have the skills of guys like Condit, Cruz, Aldo, or Anderson Silva, but he's the kind of guy you have to kill to get him to quit. Say what you will about all this "exciting" and "entertaining" bullshit, I'm an MMA fan, and I'm excited and entertained by all kinds of action, not just flat footed slugging contests.

      Maynard was not able to cut off the ring on Guida. Maynard was not able to knock him out. Maynard was not able to effect a submission. Maynard was not able to significantly outscore Guida on the feet, even according to the supposed Gold Standard of Fight Metric, which is just as subjective, non-scientific, and potentially biased as everything else I'm reading about this fight. You really think that equals a dominant crushing victory, just because Giuda confounded expectations and actually applied some kind of martial arts logic to this fight, and didn't pander to the blood lust and ADD of a beer soaked booing mob?

      Personally, I thought the most reasonable outcome of the Maynard/Guida fight was a draw, as over the course of five rounds, neither fighter was able to demonstrate a significant advantage. Sorry if that does not play into Dana White's conception of what a fight should be, or anyone else's. From where I sat, I thought Clay was brilliant, only wishing that into rounds 4 and 5 he could have established more of a positive attack and landed more telling blows, or gone to his real strength, his wrestling base, and tried harder to end the fight. Gray Maynard is co-responsible for everything that happened in the ring that night, as he was almost totally frustrated in his attempts to successfully attack his opponent, which as I recall, is one or the primary goals when facing an adversary, taking less damage than your foe. Castigate Guida all you like for "running", "evading", "point-fighting", whatever, but one fighter is not solely responsible for what happens in the ring. Takes two to tango...
    1. Rich Davie's Avatar
      Rich Davie -
      Good stuff Mu-Shin !
    1. Dirty Daley's Avatar
      Dirty Daley -
      Quote Originally Posted by Mu_Shin View Post
      Interesting perspectives all. The nature of what we witnessed, consensus reality, and the subjective aspects of a common experience perceived differently.

      Won't apologize to anyone, I've always been a fan of Clay Guida. No one works harder, and shows more heart.

      I was watching the fight the other night and here in my living room, I sure thought I saw Guida hit Maynard almost every time he came in range. No, they were not bombs, and he didn't knock him out or crush him, but Clay was not the only one who walked out of the ring with battle scars.

      Always feel my perspective is a little different, in that I spent more than ten years getting my ass kicked in TKD and the last couple on the mat in submission grappling, never having been the best or a natural athlete, but I learned and got better over time. It's obvious to me Clay Guida does not have the skills of guys like Condit, Cruz, Aldo, or Anderson Silva, but he's the kind of guy you have to kill to get him to quit. Say what you will about all this "exciting" and "entertaining" bullshit, I'm an MMA fan, and I'm excited and entertained by all kinds of action, not just flat footed slugging contests.

      Maynard was not able to cut off the ring on Guida. Maynard was not able to knock him out. Maynard was not able to effect a submission. Maynard was not able to significantly outscore Guida on the feet, even according to the supposed Gold Standard of Fight Metric, which is just as subjective, non-scientific, and potentially biased as everything else I'm reading about this fight. You really think that equals a dominant crushing victory, just because Giuda confounded expectations and actually applied some kind of martial arts logic to this fight, and didn't pander to the blood lust and ADD of a beer soaked booing mob?

      Personally, I thought the most reasonable outcome of the Maynard/Guida fight was a draw, as over the course of five rounds, neither fighter was able to demonstrate a significant advantage. Sorry if that does not play into Dana White's conception of what a fight should be, or anyone else's. From where I sat, I thought Clay was brilliant, only wishing that into rounds 4 and 5 he could have established more of a positive attack and landed more telling blows, or gone to his real strength, his wrestling base, and tried harder to end the fight. Gray Maynard is co-responsible for everything that happened in the ring that night, as he was almost totally frustrated in his attempts to successfully attack his opponent, which as I recall, is one or the primary goals when facing an adversary, taking less damage than your foe. Castigate Guida all you like for "running", "evading", "point-fighting", whatever, but one fighter is not solely responsible for what happens in the ring. Takes two to tango...
      WELL SAID MU SHIN , AGAIN PUT EVERYTHING INTO PERSPECTIVE. THIS IS MARTIAL ART'S NOT STREET FIGHTING. MARTIAL ART'S WAS THE FIGHT IN THIS VS STREET BRAWLING. EVRYTHING GUIDA DID , STOPPED MAYNARD CONTROLLING THE FIGHT , MAYBE MAYNARD IS SO PISSED BECAUSE HE FELT EXPOSED , HE DIDNT KNOW HOW TO REACT TO A FIGHTER OUT SMARTING HIM. I LIKE THE FIGHT , ANYONE WHO DIDNT GOT A WHOLE LOT OF BRAWLING FROM THE RESTOF THE CARD. I DONT GET DANA WHITE'S OPINIONS ON THIS , HE KEEP'S MIKE RUSSOW WHO BORE ATTACK'S FIGHTER'S BUT KNOCKS GUIDA.
    1. Kickass32's Avatar
      Kickass32 -
      Ok, I take issue with this alittle bit. What Guida did was not fighting, was borderline MMA. Guida threw hundreds of punches but landed 47.....basically he did a 25 minute boxercise program.

      If Guida had of implemented his gameplan in the same fashion that Carlos Condit did, I would have applauded him, much like I applauded Condit; however what Guida did amounted to running, avoidance and non engagement.

      Guida, IMO embarrassed himself, his team, his opponent and the sport.
    1. BluenoseGreig's Avatar
      BluenoseGreig -
      Quote Originally Posted by Mu_Shin View Post
      Interesting perspectives all. The nature of what we witnessed, consensus reality, and the subjective aspects of a common experience perceived differently.

      Won't apologize to anyone, I've always been a fan of Clay Guida. No one works harder, and shows more heart.

      I was watching the fight the other night and here in my living room, I sure thought I saw Guida hit Maynard almost every time he came in range. No, they were not bombs, and he didn't knock him out or crush him, but Clay was not the only one who walked out of the ring with battle scars.

      Always feel my perspective is a little different, in that I spent more than ten years getting my ass kicked in TKD and the last couple on the mat in submission grappling, never having been the best or a natural athlete, but I learned and got better over time. It's obvious to me Clay Guida does not have the skills of guys like Condit, Cruz, Aldo, or Anderson Silva, but he's the kind of guy you have to kill to get him to quit. Say what you will about all this "exciting" and "entertaining" bullshit, I'm an MMA fan, and I'm excited and entertained by all kinds of action, not just flat footed slugging contests.

      Maynard was not able to cut off the ring on Guida. Maynard was not able to knock him out. Maynard was not able to effect a submission. Maynard was not able to significantly outscore Guida on the feet, even according to the supposed Gold Standard of Fight Metric, which is just as subjective, non-scientific, and potentially biased as everything else I'm reading about this fight. You really think that equals a dominant crushing victory, just because Giuda confounded expectations and actually applied some kind of martial arts logic to this fight, and didn't pander to the blood lust and ADD of a beer soaked booing mob?

      Personally, I thought the most reasonable outcome of the Maynard/Guida fight was a draw, as over the course of five rounds, neither fighter was able to demonstrate a significant advantage. Sorry if that does not play into Dana White's conception of what a fight should be, or anyone else's. From where I sat, I thought Clay was brilliant, only wishing that into rounds 4 and 5 he could have established more of a positive attack and landed more telling blows, or gone to his real strength, his wrestling base, and tried harder to end the fight. Gray Maynard is co-responsible for everything that happened in the ring that night, as he was almost totally frustrated in his attempts to successfully attack his opponent, which as I recall, is one or the primary goals when facing an adversary, taking less damage than your foe. Castigate Guida all you like for "running", "evading", "point-fighting", whatever, but one fighter is not solely responsible for what happens in the ring. Takes two to tango...
      Whilst I don't agree fully with all of your points, a very well argued post! Very good read too.
    1. BluenoseGreig's Avatar
      BluenoseGreig -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kickass32 View Post
      Ok, I take issue with this alittle bit. What Guida did was not fighting, was borderline MMA. Guida threw hundreds of punches but landed 47.....basically he did a 25 minute boxercise program.

      If Guida had of implemented his gameplan in the same fashion that Carlos Condit did, I would have applauded him, much like I applauded Condit; however what Guida did amounted to running, avoidance and non engagement.

      Guida, IMO embarrassed himself, his team, his opponent and the sport.


      I agree, Condit fought the gameplan in a far more offensive way.
    1. Red Tex's Avatar
      Red Tex -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kickass32 View Post
      The thing is Guida hasn't always been like that though....he does have some pretty good fights where he wasn't running scared......Huerta, Sanchez, Gugerty, Dos Anjos, Gomi, they were all pretty good fights.

      I have never been a Guida fan, but even I will admit at some points Guida was a fairly entertaining fighter.
      The only fights I've seen him entertaining in were against guys who are always entertaining fighters and bring raw fights to whomever they're fighting.

      Diego Sanchez, Tyson Griffin, Florian, and Huerta.

      Those were the only real exciting fights I've seen Guida involved in, and those 3 guys are always exciting as hell to watch. Guida was entertaining, because he was fighting guys that he couldn't pull those silly shenenigans with and guys that made him fight an aggressive fight. Any other fight that Guida could actually control, he made it a snooze fest and completely dodged having to make it a real fight.

      The fights I remember the most of him was this recent one, Nate Diaz, Pettis, and Mac Danzieg. Guida fights to earn cheap point victories.
    1. Red Tex's Avatar
      Red Tex -
      Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Daley View Post
      WELL SAID MU SHIN , AGAIN PUT EVERYTHING INTO PERSPECTIVE. THIS IS MARTIAL ART'S NOT STREET FIGHTING. MARTIAL ART'S WAS THE FIGHT IN THIS VS STREET BRAWLING. EVRYTHING GUIDA DID , STOPPED MAYNARD CONTROLLING THE FIGHT , MAYBE MAYNARD IS SO PISSED BECAUSE HE FELT EXPOSED , HE DIDNT KNOW HOW TO REACT TO A FIGHTER OUT SMARTING HIM. I LIKE THE FIGHT , ANYONE WHO DIDNT GOT A WHOLE LOT OF BRAWLING FROM THE RESTOF THE CARD. I DONT GET DANA WHITE'S OPINIONS ON THIS , HE KEEP'S MIKE RUSSOW WHO BORE ATTACK'S FIGHTER'S BUT KNOCKS GUIDA.

      It may be MMA, but it is still a fight none the less. You're in the cage to fight. You're not in there to pull some cardio tourney where you swing your hands around a little bit. MMA is mixed martial arts, but it is still the sport of fighting, and your job is to go in there and win a fight, not a cardio challenge. Clay Guida disrespected the sport and the fans that paid good money that night.
    1. Dirty Daley's Avatar
      Dirty Daley -
      Red tex , to me they are locked in a cage , once that door closes , anything goes , running , punching , kicking , slams ect..... It backfired on guida anyway.
      I liked guida's attack and approach to the fight. The name of the game is to do more damage to your opponent than he does to you , i like the brawls aswell and ju jitsu battles. I like all fight's apart from lay & pray the full fight.
    1. Mu_Shin's Avatar
      Mu_Shin -
      The whole reason I write on blogs like this is to trade perspectives and argue for varied points of view. Respect every well thought out response, and appreciate the spirit of all the posters here at the Crypt...
    1. Red Tex's Avatar
      Red Tex -
      Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Daley View Post
      Red tex , to me they are locked in a cage , once that door closes , anything goes , running , punching , kicking , slams ect..... It backfired on guida anyway.
      Well that is not exactly how it works. It isn't "anything goes." There are rules that apply obviously, and one of them is that you're supposed to fight. The ref had to tell Guida in the fifth the stop running and to do his job.


      Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Daley View Post
      I liked guida's attack and approach to the fight. The name of the game is to do more damage to your opponent than he does to you , i like the brawls aswell and ju jitsu battles. I like all fight's apart from lay & pray the full fight.
      I wasn't suggesting by fighting, that Clay Guida has to get into some crazy brawl where it's blow for blow the entire time or anything, but come on man, the guy was avoiding the fight at all costs. He has done this by lay and pray also in previous fights. It's a pattern with Guida.
    1. jbleedin's Avatar
      jbleedin -
      Quote Originally Posted by Red Tex View Post
      It may be MMA, but it is still a fight none the less. You're in the cage to fight. You're not in there to pull some cardio tourney where you swing your hands around a little bit. MMA is mixed martial arts, but it is still the sport of fighting, and your job is to go in there and win a fight, not a cardio challenge. Clay Guida disrespected the sport and the fans that paid good money that night.
      I agree with you, but you're acting like what Guida did on Friday was like what Starnes did. The numbers show that Guida threw and landed about the same amount of punches Maynard did. So if Guida is going to get knocked on for the way he fought (which he should a little bit) Maynard should too.
    1. Kickass32's Avatar
      Kickass32 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Mu_Shin View Post
      The whole reason I write on blogs like this is to trade perspectives and argue for varied points of view. Respect every well thought out response, and appreciate the spirit of all the posters here at the Crypt...
      As do I yours. You are always well thought out with your points, and always state your opinion in a professional manner, and, most times I agree, however, this time I have to disagree with your views, and state that you're wrong..